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The purpose of this page is to consolidate the observable information about hate generation, and eventually condense the jumble of hypotheses into a theory that fits observable fact. Please be certain, complete and thorough; if your addition contains the words 'think' or 'believe', it should probably not be added.
Observations[]
- Hate is generated after the attack has landed. It requires a reload of the map screen for changes to become visible.
- A level 1 thief steals 200 resources from a settlement with a single nearby military structure. The nearby military structure's hate increases from 0 to 20.
- The same thief raids the same settlement. However during transit he has trained to level 6, and this time 400 resources are looted. The nearby military structure's hate increases from 20 to 60.
- One level 10 thief raids a settlement surrounded by many types of military structure, raids 400 resources. All the structures in range get the same hate increase of 40.
- Two level 10 thieves raid the same settlement and also loot 400 resources; All structures in range get a hate increase of 40.
- A level 10 thief raids a settlement further away from my own dungeon. The military structures within range of the target gain hate (40 for 400 resources). The military structures that are within range of my dungeon but NOT within range of the target do not gain hate. It can be verified these structures are within range of my dungeon because they do gain hate when I attack a target closer to me.
- Three raids of 1 thief each, each attacks 3 times. Resources raided: (400 400 325 325 300 300 325 300 300) Total of 2975 resources stolen. Hate from all nearby structures increases by 296 because the three 325 loots get rounded down to 32 hate.
- Four times three raids of 1 thief each. Results: (325 300 300 300 325 300 300 300 325 300 300 300 resources, 366 hate) A high level and a normal level military structure promptly attacks. The normal level structure sends one attack and loses 100 hate; the high level structure sends three attacks at once to the same dungeon, and loses 1300 hate. This hate loss occurs when the structure's attack is sent, not when it lands.
- Before the reprisals from 8 landed I sent out another, identical raid. This time an attack was sent by a military structure with which I had hate, but which did not gain hate from any of my current attacks. It appears to have reduced their hate by 60.
- The reprisal sent from the normal structure during 8, worth 100 points, was annihilated. This did not change the structure's hate. The attack consisted of:
(2 footmen(1), footman(3), 50 leather, 100 gold)
Hate reduction 100
- The three attacks from the high level structure in 8:
(2 Rogue(1), 4 Footmen(3), Ranger(1), Cleric(4), Wizard(4), Footman(4), 300 leather, 1500 gold)
(Footman(1), 2 Footman(4), Wizard(3), 100 leather, 200 gold)
(3 Ranger(3), Rogue(6), Footman(6), Footman(5), Wizard(2), Wizard(6), Wizard(5), Cleric(5), Cleric(4), Footman(10), 2 Footmen(7), Ranger(5), 500 leather, 1500 gold)
Hate reduction 1300
- The reprisal from 9 contained: (Footman(3), Footman(1), Footman(2), 50 leather, 100 gold) Hate reduction 60
- Another 4x3 raid, this time at a different target. It resulted again in 3 simultaneous reprisals from a single structure that was in range of the target:
Resources stolen: (400 400 400 400 400 400 400 400 400 400 375 300 = 467 hate) (Footman(4), Footman(2), Wizard(1), Footman(1), 100 leather, 400 gold) (2 Footmen(3), Wizard(1), Footman(2), 100 leather, 600 gold) (Footman(5), Ranger(3), Footman(4), Footman(1), Rogue(3), Rogue(1), 2 Wizard(5), Footman(6), Cleric(3), Footman(5), 300 leather, 1600 gold) Hate reduction 1100
- The start of reprisals seem indipendent from recent attacks done. They can be send at any moment if you have hate on settlements.
- I attacked a settlement with a force of level 1 creatures: 2 orcs, 3 warlocks and a dark elf. This attack seems to have added 11 more hate than expected. Perhaps it is the size of the raid, perhaps the presence of the dark elf. I will investigate.
- An attack with a level 20 orc and a level 1 dark elf stole 400 resources, but generated 51 hate.
Hypotheses[]
Reprisals[]
A military structure may take revenge in response to an attack on a settlement within it's range of influence. When the structure sends this attack, it loses hate.
- Is the amount of hate lost related to the size of the retaliatory force?
- I have yet to find a relationship other than "larger attack means bigger or equal hate loss to a smaller attack". More data is required.
- What determines the force's size? I've only been attacked twice, both times by the same settlement, and both times the attack force was identical: 2 Footmen, at levels 1 and 2, followed by a level 3 Footman after a delay. I didn't check at the time to see how much hate was lost, but next time I'll make sure to do that.
- Based on my reading of the XML data, the I estimate the reprisals work like this:
- Sum hate among all players in range. Launch simultaneous attacks per (hour???) based on the groupsMin and groupsMax values.
- The target is determined by the % weighting of the players in the area (sum all player hate, hate/allplayerhate = % chance this player is targeted).
- Each group is randomly created. The amount of hate reduced determines the overall strength. The AttackGroups.xml seems valid for 100 hate attacks, but no others. The spawn rate for each Fort may be the determining characteristics for the reprisal forces, but that doesn't weight the forces by hate, only % spawn.
Hate Generation[]
If multiple military structures are within range, they all gain the generated amount of hate.
- False! There is a normal level structure that I had assumed was out of range of a settlement that I've been raiding, because I hadn't generated any hate with it. Since the list of structures in range has been added, I can now see that it is, in fact, in range, and yet I still haven't generated any hate with it at all. Hate is being generated with another normal level structure that's farther away, as well as the two high level structures in range. This seems odd, and perhaps it's a bug.
- Each regular settlement has, if you click view hate, a list of "Settlement Defenders". Hate is generated in THOSE structures, not any others, whether in range or not.
Only if the raid target is within range of a military structure does this structure gain hate.
- Validated in XML
The number of creatures and in the raid as well as their levels is irrelevant.
- Only to the extent that the hate gains could be limited by creature carry.
The total hate generated by an attack is equal to 1/10th of the amount of resources stolen by the attacker, rounded down.
- That seems to be how it is. Whenever I send out my level 1 thief, he always loots exactly 200, and the nearby structure always gains 20 hate.
- I've been able to perfectly predict hate gain every time with this.
- Not any more. Sending a dark elf increased the hate by 11? Seems arbitrary. Something else is going on.
- See below for "base hate" on detection and 1 hate per kill.
It may be possible that the hate generated is 1/10 of the amount of resources stolen by the attacker, plus 10 if the defenders were killed, plus 1 for every defender that is killed. More data required.
- Partially correct, see bottom.
Theory[]
Reprisal Chance[]
A red has explained the 'Reprisal Chance' mechanic, and it's relation to Hate [1]:
ProfessorOwl (DO Developer): "Each settlement launches a number of simultaneous attacks every so often. The time in between these groups of attacks and the number of them is somewhat random. Every time a set of these is launched, there's a chance that the target for any of those attacks is one of your dungeons."
PeteD: "So the reprisal chance is simply my share of the pool of hate that structure has towards everyone? If I gain 1 hate with a structure that has no hate, does it's reprisal chance towards me jump to 100%?"
ProfessorOwl: "Yup. Although there is a minimum hate you need to have in order to be considered."
Military structure ranges[]
Please look around your maps and add tables of your own below. To get the range, calculate . You can get the deltas by subtracting your coordinates from their coordinates. Note: the ranges are now listed at under the section XML and Hate.
NormalStructureRange.jpg
| Level | Description | highest within range | lowest out of range |
|---|---|---|---|
| normal | This is a military structure, beware | (2,4)=4.47 | (3,4)=5.0 |
| high | This is a high level military structure, beware | (7,6)=9.2 | (9,4)=9.8 |
| higher | This is a higher level military structure, beware | (11,13)=17 | |
| super | This is a super high level military structure, beware | (13,16)=20.6 |
Retaliation[]
| structure type | hate reduction | army | drops | notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| normal | 100 | 2 footmen(1), footman(3) | 50 leather, 100 gold | |
| high | 1300 | (2 Rogue(1), 4 Footmen(3), Ranger(1), Cleric(4), Wizard(4), Footman(4)) (Footman(1), 2 Footman(4), Wizard(3)) |
300 leather, 1500 gold 100 leather, 200 gold |
Three seperate attacks sent at once from the same place |
| normal | 60 (100?) | Footman(3), Footman(1), Footman(2) | 50 leather, 100 gold | |
| normal | 1100 | (Footman(4), Footman(2), Wizard(1), Footman(1)) (2 Footmen(3), Wizard(1), Footman(2)) |
100 leather, 400 gold 100 leather, 600 gold |
Three attacks from the same structure |
| normal | 300 | 2 Footman(3), Wizard(2) | 100 leather, 200 gold | |
| high | 300 | Footman(3), Footman(2), Wizard(3) | 100 leather, 200 gold | |
| high | 300 | Footman(3), Footman(4), Wizard(1), Footman(1) | 100 leather, 200 gold | |
| normal | 500 | Footman(5), Ranger(2), Footman(1), Footman(2), Wizard(5), Cleric(3), 2 Footman(4), Cleric(2), 2 Rogue(3) | 250 leather, 800 gold | |
| normal | 300 | 2 Footman(4), Wizard(2), Footman(3) | 100 leather, 200 gold | |
| high | 300 | Footman(4), 2 Wizard(3), Footman(2) | 100 leather, 200 gold | |
| higher | 300 | Footman (1), Footman (2), 2 Footmen (3), Wizard (2), Wizard (3) | 100 leather, 200 gold |
Resource recovery[]
A pattern emerges regarding resources looted from settlements. The following lists are the number of resources stolen in order of occurrence by raids that took place one after the other. All attacks are level 10 thieves. The pattern is obvious.
Three raids of three are sent. This means three attacks hit the settlement, followed by about 26 minutes while the thieves walk to the dungeon and back to the settlement to attack again.
400 400 325 -pause- 325 300 300 -pause- 325 300 300
Four raids of three are sent.
325 300 300 300 -pause- 325 300 300 300 -pause- 325 300 300 300
Four raids of three against a different target than my usual; this settlement is not directly next to any mountain and yielded far more resources.
400 400 400 400 -pause- 400 400 400 400 -pause- 400 400 375 300
Perhaps recovery does play a role with settlements. 400 resources are stolen from a "fresh" settlement twice, then it degrades to 325. When a settlement is "depleted", only 300 resources can be stolen. But after a short rest, the settlement has recovered 25 resources.
Is this done in plateaus (400->325->300) or is that just an artifact of the pattern in my attacks?
- It appears to decrease by no less than 25 resources. A different attack at a "fresh" target yielded (400->375->300).
The respawn rate for Settlement varies by the type while Raiding.
Hate Generation[]
Simple 1/10th of resources is not enough to account for hate every time. When thieves attack this is accurate, but when defenders are killed something else happens as well.
This data requires more work than the battle reports in Raiding because we need the hate increase caused by the attack to be accurate.
When measuring, please take notes on two or three different military structures, preferably of different types. If they gain different amounts of hate from the same attack, please mention it here, because we'll need a different plan. I haven't seen this happen, but you never know.
| Settlement | Hate | Attackers | Defenders | Attackers killed | Defenders killed | Loot |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pitiful | 52 | Orc(20), Orc(1) | 2x Footman(2) | 2x Footman(2) | 400 (223 leather, 77 iron, 100 gold) | |
| Pitiful | 51 | Orc(20), Darkelf(1) | Footman(2) | Footman(2) | 400 (270 leather, 30 iron, 100 gold) | |
| Pitiful | 52 | 2x Orc(1), 3x Warlock(1), Thief(10) | Footman(1), Footman(2) | 3x Warlock(1) | Footman(1), Footman(2) | 400 (242 food, 58 fire, 100 gold) |
| Pitiful | 51 | 2x Orc(1), 3x Warlock(1), Darkelf(1) | Footman(1) | Footman(1) | 400 (248 leather, 52 food, 100 gold) | |
| Strong | 239 | 3x Orc(30), 3xDarkelf(30) | Wizard(7), Cleric(8), Footman(8), 3 Footman(5), Footman(11), Ranger(4), Footman(3) | Wizard(7), Cleric(8), Footman(8), 3 Footman(5), Footman(11), Ranger(4), Footman(3) | 2000 (164 ice, 241 leather, 605 food, 490 fire, 500 gold) |
A pattern can be seen. Hate generation may be 1/10 resources, + 10 in case attackers are detected, +1 for each casualty among the defenders. Unfortunately there's too little data for anything conclusive.
If anyone can get reports of a thief attacking a settlement with a ranger present, we may get conformation of the 'detected' bit.
This numbers added may be constants related to settlement size or enemy level. If anyone has battle reports with hate numbers of an attacks against level 2 settlements, it will be very welcome.
It would seem level 2 (or "strong") settlements have 30 detection hate, as opposed to the 10 from pitiful settlements.
Here's an alternative observation: from the data we see that a base of 10 hate is added to pitiful settlement when defenders are killed while 30 hate is added when attacking a strong settlement. There are three tiers of settlements: pitiful, normal, and strong. If we set the bonus hate gained equal to H=10*(tier of settlement, 1-3) + # of defenders killed + .1*(Resources stolen), we get accurate numbers that match the sample data.
XML Data and Hate[]
From the Settlements.xml file, we get the information about "base hate" for an attack. Stripped of the XML syntax, here is the data:
- Settlement type="Village" file="SettlementVillage.xml" chance="2000" repopChance="20" groupsMax="0" range="0" baseHate="10"
- Settlement type="Town" file="SettlementTown.xml" chance="1000" repopChance="20" groupsMax="0" range="0" baseHate="30"
- Settlement type="City" file="SettlementCity.xml" chance="500" repopChance="18" groupsMax="0" range="0" baseHate="50"
Settlement type="Keep" file="SettlementKeep.xml" chance="150" repopChance="15" attackMinMinutes="60" attackMaxMinutes="240" groupsMin="1" groupsMax="3" range="5" baseHate="100"
Settlement type="Castle" file="SettlementCastle.xml" chance="100" repopChance="10" attackMinMinutes="50" attackMaxMinutes="300" groupsMin="2" groupsMax="5" range="10" baseHate="500"
Settlement type="Fortress" file="SettlementFortress.xml" min="1" max="2" repopChance="8" attackMinMinutes="360" attackMaxMinutes="720" groupsMin="3" groupsMax="9" range="20" baseHate="200"
Settlement type="Citadel" file="SettlementCitadel.xml" min="1" max="2" repopChance="5" attackMinMinutes="720" attackMaxMinutes="1440" groupsMin="3" groupsMax="12" range="-1" baseHate="10000"
chance = Likely the chance that a particular type of Settlement will be created on the map.
min and max = Fortress and Citadel count per map perhaps, but 2 Fortress 1 Citadel seems common.
repopChance= Likely a weighted chance per hour of respawning a burned settlement. Unknown how many burned settlements can respawn.
groupsMin and groupsMax = The number of simultaneous attacks.
attackMinMinutes and attackMaxMinutes = Implies that we can't using timing as an absolute means of verifying the attack forces. (Should be verified.) Alternately, could be the min and max intervals between attacks. (Also verifiable on the min time.)
range = The area where hate is accumulated when settlements inside that area are attacked.
baseHate = Confirms the hypothesis about "detection hate" minimums for each T1 and T2.